The Poolie Bunker

So the government say they will not tolerate companies Profiteering from the increased price of Oil and Gas due to the Iran conflict.
Are they not guilty themselves of profiteering as a result of the higher tax revenues?

Why are the government profiteering, they have no control over the price of oil and gas, if the price goes up obviously the tax revenues go up. They have already hinted the fuel duty increase in September might not go ahead. Oil and Gas prices are decided globally not by individual governments, the U.K. produces gas, it is sold on the open market by the operator then sold back to the U.K.
The ones who are profiteering are the filling stations who immediately increase the price even though fuel they bought probably was from months ago when the oil price was lower.

And the government profits from the profiteers by charging vat on the price at the point of sale.
September is a long way off, petrol prices are going through the roof and maybe an immediate short term cut in vat should be imposed to help reduce inflationary pressure and the day to day cost of living.

Unfortunately all governments in the past have imposed vat on petrol prices, petrol rose to 195.00 a litre when the Ukraine war kicked off, I never hear any shouts to cut fuel duty then ?

That doesn't mean there shouldn't be shouts now and it is safe to assume that hypocrites like you and your left wing zealots would be screaming from the roof tops if a Tory or Reform Chancellor was gathering approximately £90 million per month in extra taxes. Taxes which are being gleaned from ordinary working folk which your party vowed not to impose more tax burdens upon.
Have you received your new Tax Code yet?????

Regardless of which governments in power the current lot are profiting at our expense from an increased vat income.are they not?
And, the VAT is even charged on duty, so tax on a tax. Again all governments take it.
The fact is that small changes on VAT on fuel have big impacts on the cost of living, and it's an easy adjustment to make if they actually did care.

I am not a left wing zealot Derwent, the U.K. is nearly £3 trillion in debt, our GDP is 100% meaning everything we take in is paid out to service the debt.
Your right wing zealots increased the national debt whilst in power and at one time through the Truss disastrous budget nearly bankrupted the U.K. with the Bank of England having to bail us which forced interest rates meaning an increase in mortgage rates.
Conservative governments (2010–2024) did not reduce the overall national debt. While they reduced the annual budget deficit (the amount borrowed each year) in the years following 2010, the total national debt continued to rise, more than doubling from approximately £1 trillion to over £2.6 trillion by 2024
Yes I am expecting an email notification about my new tax code, it is what it is, I won’t be enthralled by it, can you suggest how the national debt should be reduced ?

Swings and roundabouts, reduce the VAT but the bills still have to paid so an increase in another tax would have to be implicated, can you suggest another way to supplement the decrease in VAT PTID ?

Why would they need to supplement the VAT?
Lowering VAT temporarily on fuel to equal the forecast amount rather than the windfall amount they're taking as a result of the price rises would be cost neutral - they'd still receive the forecast tax income. Taking the extra is a bonus (effectively profiteering, no different to the fuel companies).
Why keep harping back to Truss? Why not Brown and leaving the Treasury penniless? None of us can change history, but the present government, regardless of party, can change the present and future. Reacting to world events is part and parcel of the job and the cost of living today is far more important to us plebs today than the National Debt.

You are a left wing zealot and demonstrate that fact on an almost daily basis. I have never discussed the national debt on here but if you want a surefire way of having any chance of reducing it, get the economy going in the right direction and the only chance of that is to get your Party and fellow left wing zealots to either change tack and run the job properly or sod off and let somebody else have a go.
Oh and if we are going to descend into your mirroring your efforts as the only way of getting your point across then my obvious retort is .....well my dick is bigger than your dIck. na na nana na.

The government are not profiteering, the forecourt garages are, no one complained when petrol was nearly £2 a litre in 2022, it’s nowhere near that currently. You read too much of the right wing MSM who at every opportunity slag the government off, hey they are far from being perfect but Starmer has handled the Iran conflict well not wanting to be drawn an illegal war.
Just goes to show your knowledge about the national debt, it has to be serviced through taxes.
No mention in MSM about Tice and his avoidance of £600000 in Corporation Tax yet it was over the front pages about Rayner in the end forcing her to resign.

The problem on this board if you have a left leaning tendency you are called a left wing zealot by you Derwent, one other poster gets slagged off every time he posts anything, I notice he very rarely posts nowadays.
You keep going on about ‘my party’, remember you were a Labour Party member were you not, what are you now, sitting on fence and calling anyone who is left wing a zealot ? I have never been a member of any party nor am I member of the current Labour Party, a trade unionist yes, not many of us left.
You are one of many to say Labour should stand down and let some one else have a go, who would you suggest, your Nigel, look at the facts when your beloved Tories were in power.
The UK economy grew overall between 2010 and 2024, but at a historically slow pace, with very weak growth per person. While GDP increased, it lagged behind pre-2010 trends, leading to stagnant average earnings and a widening gap compared to economic performance in other countries

"No one complained in 2022 when petrol was nearly £2 a litre" ?,........ I'm damn sure they did, particularly haulage firm owners, taxi fleet owners and delivery firms in particular, were demonstrating in the capital at some point, maybe in "conveniently forget world" they weren't.

The government vat intake from petrol and diesel is going up as the price is, so if the garages are profiteering then so are the government as their vat on excess profits increases. Increased tax on profiteering is profiteering at a higher level, they're not saying we won't take the extra vat because some of it comes from garages profiteering. This is basic maths and feck all to do with party politics. Since when was the Iran war declared an opportunity to take more vat and pay off the national debt anyway.
If the projected and therefore budgeted vat income was "x" pounds, it's now gone up so they're getting extra vat to the tune of 1p for every 5p price rise. They could forego the extra income at no net cost, simples.

Just got an email from British Gas.
Unit prices going down slightly but smashed up the Standing Charges to £1.16 a day.
Add that to the now Water Standing Charges


Over £500 a year.
And only yesterday Starmer saying we won't tolerate anyone profiteering from this Iran carry on.

Absolute joke government ripping the piss out of us.
FFS.

Oh and the Hartlepool Council tax gone up 2% despite the promise of a freeze last July.

Precisely. They are profiteering to the tune of around 90 million pounds of extra tax per month and bragging about using a one off sum of 53 million pounds to compensate a few of us. Taking vast sums from working class people who are having to pay extra to get to work etc.
How much of that extra un budgeted money will be directed towards illegal invaders I wonder, or to load the pockets of the work shy.
Jamie says I am sitting on the fence when it comes to supporting an individual party and then contradicts himself by associating me with Reform and the Tories. I don't defend or advocate the virtues of either of those parties. Like others, I scrutinise the performance of the Government of the day. I will turn my attention to all of the parties come the next GE.
He goes on about the national debt but defends his party when their performance is questioned. If their performance was any where near to adding buoyancy to the economy maybe the businesses they are throwing under the bus on a daily basis would help fill the treasury coffers. However, as usual, businesses making a profit and boosting the tax take are frowned upon by left wing zealots like Jamie and his party. They would rather squeeze them into oblivion in order to fund the work shy and illegal invaders.
Socialism is great until they run out of other people's money. Tax, borrow and spend and then have the cheek to leave notes in the Treasury stating there's nowt in the tin. Who would forecast that that situation would not be repeated when they finally get booted out again.
Who would bet against Jamie blaming Farage, Trump, Truss and anybody else that springs to his closed mind. Not me Guv.

Socialism is great till they run out of money says a former member of the Labour Party up until they scrapped the WFA ? Yes they made huge error judgement but have since made it means tested as it should be.
Farage, encouraged the electorate to take the U.K. out of the largest trading economy in the world, where did that get us, the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR), the UK's independent forecaster, estimates that Brexit will reduce the UK's long-term productivity and GDP by around 4% compared to remaining in the EU. U.K. citizens can no longer travel to EU countries with out a visa and can only spend a maximum of 90 days there, bang goes the long term winter holidays for retirees.
Truss, The economic plan caused a sharp decline in the pound to record lows and a surge in UK borrowing costs, triggering panic.
The radical, uncosted plans caused borrowing costs to spike, plunging the UK into a financial crisis.
Trump, tariffs, imposed them not realising the costs would be passed onto his own citizens increasing their cost of living.Iran, he was ‘suckered’ into it by Netanyahu, he is now up sh*t street without a paddle as the majority of countries are refusing to support him. Trump forgets NATO's core strategy is deterrence and defense, aimed at preventing conflict rather than provoking it.
Explain ‘ left wing zealots like Jamie and his part‘ what party is that Derwent ? You are always going on about me trying to brainwash posters. There are less than a dozen regular posters on The Bunker all getting on in age and I very much doubt they are going to be influenced by what I post, yes I am left wing, so what, it’s a free country, we aallow freedom of speech.I have some good banter with them and it’s good to read there point of views as well even if I don’t agree with them.

What did the protests achieve, nought except use up precious fuel protesting.

UK gas prices are primarily driven by global wholesale supply and demand, with significant influence from geopolitical events, international liquefied natural gas (LNG) competition, and the value of sterling. While wholesale costs dictate the market, the UK regulator, Ofgem, controls consumer prices through the Energy Price Cap. The Energy Price Cap,is being reduced but due to the Iran conflict it will rise again, you can’t blame Starmer for that.
You forget all the Utilities are privatised and their aim is to guarantee dividends for their shareholders.

And the government of the day appoints the regulator and sets their remit and scope of powers. So why not include allowing them to simply cap or abolish standing charges?
And, let's not forget, VAT was introduced as a "luxury tax". Since when has transport, heating your home or providing hot water become a "luxury"? So the government of the day have the power to reduce or remove this "luxury tax" on an essential commodity.
The UK has vast untapped gas reserves, we could in fact extract these for domestic use only and import only what's needed to make up the total domestic requirement. There is nothing to stop us keeping and setting the price of home produced oil or gas.
Stop bleating on about global oil and gas prices, if it was relevant then global energy prices would not be different from country to country. We have the world's highest energy cost because company's and government choose to keep them high.

PTID I agree to disagree, we will be for ever debating me being a lefty you being well I don’t know what party you follow, couple of interesting 2 minute vlogs from YouTube about economics.
https://youtu.be/2mIRgmUvx1U?si=NE6w1LGCuXgFAZyz
https://youtu.be/IareJSb5dKQ?si=YK_u67xn9uyEokII

What protests?, thought you said no one complained?, also Farage didn't discourage trading with the EU he wanted us to not have to come under their jurisdiction and crazy law making.

Jamie, your 2 vlogs would be better sent to Rachel Reeves, I already fully understand how global economics, GDP, and National Debt work.
This thread was about fuel profiteering, and companies and the government as I've already stated are guilty of profiteering from the closure of the Straits of Hormuz, it's undeniably fact. So to agree to disagree is simply burying your head in the sand.
It's in the gift of government to ease the financial burden of the citizens of the UK while this conflict goes on by adjusting fuel duty and or vat, and similarly with energy companies without any cost to themselves (although they'd obviously lose the extra "profiteering" bit). Government have chosen not to act end of.
I'd say I'm most definitely a floating voter as I tend to scrutinise and criticise all parties - the best way to be imo rather than a Labour or Tory for life type. Give real and objective scrutiny of Starmer's government in 20 months a try - it might just open your eyes a bit.

I was trying to make you understand that the U.K. debt has to be paid back, no government can just print money to solve their economic issues, I don’t think any one agrees how they do pay the U.K. debts but it’s through taxes.

You can’t have it always, your either in or out the EU, can name any individual benefit you have had from Brexit, oh forgot you got your blue passport back.

As Jamie has said the country is 3 trillion in debt roughly 40000 pounds per house hold. Obviously the more the debt increases the more interest we pay . The more interest the country has to pay the more taxes each taxpayer (middle England) forks out . The country is just kicking the can down the road . Most first world countries are in the same boat . Which ever party gets in they face the same problems. The top 5% are unaffected and the bottom 5% take a lesser blow. The rest 90% of the population take all the blows . 3 trillion is practically impossible to wipe out so just expect the UK standard of living to fall for decades . Although I’m in Thailand a prices are rising . I pay taxes on my rental property in the UK. The current war and tariffs from the idiotic Trump will continue to erode the western world standard of living unless he is impeached or taken out . In the not to distant future I see everyone paying for the NHS and the state pension could be means tested .

Must be something in the air in Thailand that loosen’s screws

State Pension should never be means tested.
It's earned by 35 years of graft.
No way should someone who's put sacrifices into their lives to earn a decent retirement should be punished.

The rising state pension age is more than enough pisstakeing because its bullshit when we get told we are living longer.

Absolutely. If fuel prices and tax income are allowed to continue to spiral then all it can do is harm the economy as prices rise, wage demands subsequently rise, etc
More importantly businesses will fail and jobs will be lost, more taking from the benefit systems and fewer paying taxes.
It's not complicated really. In extraordinary circumstances then governments have to protect our way of life. They did it during COVID, and yes there were many abuses of the loans and furlough system, but without those measures how many businesses would have gone to the wall and how many people would have defaulted on their mortgages and lost their homes?

According to the BBC Pay is growing at it's slowest rate for five years. Not good news under the circumstances as escalation expected in the cost of living.
Good job we have a government dedicated to protecting the livelihoods of ordinary working people and the elderly.
Oh wait !!!!!!!!!!!
Those on welfare and illegal invaders will be able to manage so that's a relief.

Plenty of people have never done 35 years of hard graft, if you never or hardly worked and were on benefits you still qualify for the full pension and top up benefits. There will come a time when the State Pension will be means tested or they will just keep putting the retirement age hoping you will pop your clogs before you reach pension age, there isn’t enough money in the pot. It’s means tested in Australia where the value of your property is taken into consideration.

There'll have to be serious consultation to means test State Pension, can see the lawyers making a fortune out of it if or when it goes ahead.
Back in the day I was told when I started work that part of my NI contributions were to guarantee a State Pension, and back then it was deemed an entitlement dependent on your contributions. Only recently have they started saying it's a benefit rather than a secured entitlement. If they means test, will they refund pensioners their contributions, or those who've paid in but will not be entitled to SP due to means testing as they reach retirement age, will there be an opportunity to opt out of the SP at reduced NI to invest in a private pension?

I think it's been known for some time that the State Pension is a Pyramid scheme and it only works if more and more people come in at the bottom of the pyramid to continue paying those at the top who are no longer paying in.

As more and more jobs are eroded by things like AI then the number of people paying in at the bottom will decrease quicker and the pyramid will eventually fail.

This your either in or out of the EU rubbish is all smoke and mirrors, where you live it bears no consequence, if I want to buy something now over the internet and it comes from China I'll buy it, if the cost is right, it's all down to control, Brussels wants to control what European countries can say and do and it keeps the greedy lawmakers in a job, Labour has never embraced standing alone and Starmer and his bunch of clowns haven't the backbone to do it either.

"No one complained in 2022 when petrol was nearly £2 a litre" ?,........ I'm damn sure they did, particularly haulage firm owners, taxi fleet owners and delivery firms in particular, were demonstrating in the capital at some point, maybe in "conveniently forget world" they weren't.[/quote]

What did the protests achieve, nought except use up precious fuel protesting.[/quote]

What protests?, thought you said no one complained?, also Farage didn't discourage trading with the EU he wanted us to not have to come under their jurisdiction and crazy law making.[/quote]


You can’t have it always, your either in or out the EU, can name any individual benefit you have had from Brexit, oh forgot you got your blue passport back.[/quote]

This your either in or out of the EU rubbish is all smoke and mirrors, where you live it bears no consequence, if I want to buy something now over the internet and it comes from China I'll buy it, if the cost is right, it's all down to control, Brussels wants to control what European countries can say and do and it keeps the greedy lawmakers in a job, Labour has never embraced standing alone and Starmer and his bunch of clowns haven't the backbone to do it either.[/quote]

What party do you currently support, do a bit a googling and and ask what the benefits of brexit were, I doubt you will find any positive answers.

Far too many Torys didn't embrace leaving either, that's why the EU walked all over in the negotiations for leaving.

On a positive note regarding leaving the EU, the announced commitment for 50% of our steel requirements to be made in the UK wouldn't have been permissible if we'd still been in the club. Credit to the government for acting in the UKs best interests for a change - I'm guessing Starmer was abroad when this scheme was devised.

Feck me "what party do you support"? The dinosaurs didn't die out after all.

If you follow my previous posts none of them, no reason to, I will wait till the next G.E, and decide then.

Does the U.K. still have any steel making plants, maybe they do but only foreign owned ones, you have missed this PDTID, the UK government has intervened to fund and take control of the British Steel Scunthorpe plant to prevent its closure. Following threats by Chinese owners Jingye to shut down blast furnaces, the government enacted emergency legislation in April 2025 to secure raw materials and fund day-to-day operations, with costs already exceeding £300 million
Give Starmer a bit of credit if Badenoch or Farage were in charge they would have dragged us into the Iranian conflict as they both said initially the U.K. should back Trump.

Ok it's not ideal that the steel making plants are foreign owned, but it's still UK jobs and communities that have been protected. And if we'd been in the EU neither the support for Scunthorpe nor this new arrangement would have been allowed.
As for supporting Trump in Iran, we most certainly have mobilised support to Cyprus as soon as the first drone landed on the British base there, or should we turn the other cheek, and we should be doing whatever it takes to protect British shipping travelling through the Straits of Hormuz. The widespread and indiscriminate revenge attacks by Iran on non-aggressive nations shows that those mad feckers need to be held in check. Make no mistake, if they'd had nuclear weapons they'd have been launched by now.

Oh god there is stupid and stupider. I thought it was just Maga supporters in the south who are dumb. You will be saying you believe in God soon. Trump and his party are all nut jobs and we need to stay out of this war. Trump is probably the dumbest president America has ever had

What did the protests achieve, nought except use up precious fuel protesting.[/quote]

What protests?, thought you said no one complained?, also Farage didn't discourage trading with the EU he wanted us to not have to come under their jurisdiction and crazy law making.[/quote]


You can’t have it always, your either in or out the EU, can name any individual benefit you have had from Brexit, oh forgot you got your blue passport back.[/quote]

This your either in or out of the EU rubbish is all smoke and mirrors, where you live it bears no consequence, if I want to buy something now over the internet and it comes from China I'll buy it, if the cost is right, it's all down to control, Brussels wants to control what European countries can say and do and it keeps the greedy lawmakers in a job, Labour has never embraced standing alone and Starmer and his bunch of clowns haven't the backbone to do it either.[/quote]

What party do you currently support, do a bit a googling and and ask what the benefits of brexit were, I doubt you will find any positive answers.[/quote]

There are no benefits of Brexit . We come out of a free trading block with zero tariffs . We now make deals with other countries which takes ages . Meanwhile the UK is stuck with endless bureaucracy . Sheer lunacy all caused by the millionaire Farage and compulsive liar Johnson

Who's stupid?
Where did I say we should have supported Trump? What I said was we should have mobilised extra defence to Cyprus after the British base there was attacked - do you disagree, or should we just let anyone reign drones down on what is effectively UK soil? Now that really would be stupid wouldn't it, exposing ourselves as all blister and no might.
Commenting on what you think I may have said rather than what I actually did say is stupid.

Are you Jim Bob’s nephew or another of his aliases…we should be told.

Let’s face facts, profiteering is a viral knee jerk reaction of business.
My daughter just got informed that basically a piece of land in a field she was paying for for three nights to park their motor home without any facilities, had been in creased by 30 quid because of the ‘war’.

Been ‘on the sick’ Snowy, you normally pounce on replies like this, well you do when they are mine, no relation nor an alias, good to see some one post with similar views for a change.

This prosperous EU you keep going on about,have all nations agreed to the 90 billion loan to Ukraine yet,?can they all afford it with the massive bills they all face for the illegals,and they're all expected to piss in the same pot remember when the dictators call.Rules are rules!

The U.K. had no boat arrivals before Brexit, the smugglers saw an opening after Brexit and used it to their full advantage. Take your time to read what the employment laws are in the EU the ones Mogg and Farage want to abolish.
Key areas of EU employment law include:
Working Time Directive: Limits average weekly hours to 48, guarantees daily rest (11 hours), weekly rest (24 hours), and specific protections for night workers.
Equal Treatment: Prohibits discrimination based on gender, race, religion, age, disability, or sexual orientation.
Contract Rights: Employees must be informed in writing about the essential aspects of their employment relationship.
Work-life Balance: Provides minimum standards for paternity, parental, and carers' leave, including, for example, the right to request flexible working arrangements.
Family/Medical Leave: Includes rights to maternity and parental leave.
Worker Mobility: Citizens can work in any EU country without a permit, enjoying the same rights as national workers, such as equal pay.
2026 Pay Transparency Updates: New regulations require employers to disclose pay levels for roles, ban questions about past salary history, and require companies to report gender pay gaps.

Are you serious….I can never tell if you’re ‘replying’ or ‘rambling’ ….so don’t worry.