For the Bunker liberals....

Spender · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:56 am

All togevver now!!!................

It's the rich what gets the pleasure
It's the poor what gets the blaaaammeeeaahhh..
(for the Fall fans).
It's the same the whole world overrrrrrrr
Isn't it a fuc kin shaaammmeeee

Do something or shut up. :wink:

grabec · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:08 am

chip fireball wrote:

so we have established that the lily livered liberals are grabec, nick, britishwesthartlepool and mr marx. ive never met any of them but i would like to, as they seem the kind of people i would like to knock around with. not in a gay bunker way. in a manly, sitting round the pub, reading the guardian, stroking our beards and nodding sagely way.

however i suspect they is all rich, middle class, and living somewhere far away in suburbia. and not on the central like what i is doing. rage

no wonder i is feeling isolated.

Thank you, chip, you sound like a very nice boy too :wink:

But you've hit a nerve there, my dad having been a shop steward and all, I do sometimes feel I've betrayed me origins. Not many unions around now, tho, to attach yourself to.....

nick · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:14 am

Pooliekev wrote:

All togevver now!!!................

It's the rich what gets the pleasure
It's the poor what gets the blaaaammeeeaahhh..
(for the Fall fans).
It's the same the whole world overrrrrrrr
Isn't it a fuc kin shaaammmeeee

Do something or shut up. :wink:

i'm only in my early 20s, and have no resources other than my brain and me debts. there's nothing I could do to make a difference. although my utopian socialist vision becomes clearer every day. i hope to start writing it down, in some sort of modern day communist manifesto, by the time i'm 30, as long as i'm not dead.

grabec · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:20 am

nick wrote:

Pooliekev wrote:

All togevver now!!!................

It's the rich what gets the pleasure
It's the poor what gets the blaaaammeeeaahhh..
(for the Fall fans).
It's the same the whole world overrrrrrrr
Isn't it a fuc kin shaaammmeeee

Do something or shut up. :wink:

i'm only in my early 20s, and have no resources other than my brain and me debts. there's nothing I could do to make a difference. although my utopian socialist vision becomes clearer every day. i hope to start writing it down, in some sort of modern day communist manifesto, by the time i'm 30, as long as i'm not dead.

Well I think you're doing great. Ignore Kevin...he's just an old cynic. Besides he's not really here any more, except in a virtual sense.

nick · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:28 am

thanks, that's encouraging.

we have nowt to lose but our chains!

Spender · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:29 am

nick wrote:

Pooliekev wrote:

All togevver now!!!................

It's the rich what gets the pleasure
It's the poor what gets the blaaaammeeeaahhh..
(for the Fall fans).
It's the same the whole world overrrrrrrr
Isn't it a fuc kin shaaammmeeee

Do something or shut up. :wink:

i'm only in my early 20s, and have no resources other than my brain and me debts. there's nothing I could do to make a difference. although my utopian socialist vision becomes clearer every day. i hope to start writing it down, in some sort of modern day communist manifesto, by the time i'm 30, as long as i'm not dead.

I didn't specifically mean you Nick, you seem like a rounded sort of thinking cove.

I mean there's been so much meaningful discussion on all sorts of subjects over the last few weeks and as a group of socially aware, animated, opinionated people we should be at least joined in the consensus that the country is going to hell in a handcart.

Now opinion is one thing but change is another, we've already established that there isn't much political fire among the Bunkerites, not overtly anyway, and most of the venom has been aimed at Ian Wright who to be fair has all the clout of a piss in a pond. Fundamentally, he and his paymasters don't give a flying fart if they bury Hartlepool under a nuclear waste tip, they can expect to hold the seat anyway.

BUT, if you don't like the way the town is going, you don't like the way the country is going, don't like the way the council is. CHANGE IT!!!

It's of little use whining about owt if less than three in ten go to the council ballot box and only five in ten go to the General Election. I don't care who you vote for, vote anyway, vote Green. vote Monster Raving, vote for them who bounce on mattresses, but vote. Let them know you're there.

I hate all this bollocks about 'no credible alternative' 'I'm voting for the party' 'they're all the same' 'they never listen to us.' Well if you don't say owt, there's nothing to listen to. It's in your hands, always was.

Simple case. Do you think that Pools should be able to buy their ground?? Vote at the council elections for yes. Do nowt for no.

See?? Simple. :roll:

:sweet:

nick · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:44 am

Pooliekev wrote:

BUT, if you don't like the way the town is going, you don't like the way the country is going, don't like the way the council is. CHANGE IT!!!

surely you know it's not that easy.

political mobilisation is a bit difficult when people are content and well fed. it doesn't matter how much better it could be - it doesn't matter how corrupt or inept these people are - it doesn't even matter that our elected leaders act in the interests of a very small minority. Something will have to go wrong - food or energy shortages specifically, before people will finally get off their arses and do something.

and i don't share your positive view of democracy. for the reasons stated above, you're not going to get massive turnouts in elections - these politicians thrive off apathy, it's just a fact - these mainstream parties wouldn't be up there 5 minutes if the apathy died out, people put their heads together and came up with some alternative. it all comes down to the fact that if people are warm and secure, they don't care enough to make a difference. isn't it sad that so many people are resigned to working 40 hours a week for crap money? they think that's what life is about, but it doesn't have to be.

Spender · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:58 am

Well we appear to agree in a lot of areas. Then again a lot of the people on here are in that comfort zone but still seem to have an opinion. It's only when the nasties come to call that they get mildly outraged but come election day something trivial gets in the way like shopping or picking up the kids and they're stuck with it again. I'm saying they only have themselves to blame. If they're as apathetic in every other area, let's hope the house doesn't get on fire eh??

The wages that they work for aren't necessarily crap at the beginning but what they've got left after the treasury intervenes is. And what they pay for isn't what they want, but they've already bought it. My point is that perhaps they should understand that it's still their money and they CAN have a say in how it's spent. Put that baldly maybe people might catch on.

I rarely missed a vote and my final one was with my feet. Having explored my options it seemed much the better choice.

Mister Ed · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:34 pm

FatBastad wrote:

You lot crack me up. rolfl

This has to be one of the best threads ever on the bunker...........and yet all I now want to do is laugh like fook. :laugh:

Right I have a plan.

We are all going to meet in the Mill House Pub Saturday.

The Midle Class will meet in lounge.

The working class in the bar.

Chip...........you stand outside. rolfl

Those of you that are thinking people, either working class or midle class, must drink Scotch.

Beards are banned.

do this will mean I have to shave before a match now?

what about chest hair, in this modern world of male waxing, and body oils spread liberally all over ones torso, and not to mention the sack & crack. :shock:

...I'll get our lass to melt down the xmas candles form an orderly Q.........

poolpower · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:15 pm

just be cause your loosing rolfl

Montpoolier · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:42 pm

FatBastad wrote:

Message boards are great.

And shows us why politics cant work.

If you are one you cant be the other.

So common sense never gets to see the light of day.

If you want the death penalty. you a raging right wing tory. If you want to think about how people are sentenced youa re left wing sympathiser.

Dead right. At one extreme we have a staunch labour supporter like PP banging the anti-liberal drum in the context of this discussion and at the other extreme there are people like myself who are dedicated anti-socialists yet subscribe to a whole shitload of so-called "left-wing" views (in inverted commas because I think the idea of left and right ranks among the most stupid ever conceived).

In any case I don't intend to get involved in the real gist of this discussion simply because I don't have an answer nor even a clue where to begin looking for one.

BritishWestHpool · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:35 pm **Posts:** 1243

chip fireball wrote:

so we have established that the lily livered liberals are grabec, nick, britishwesthartlepool and mr marx. ive never met any of them but i would like to, as they seem the kind of people i would like to knock around with. not in a gay bunker way. in a manly, sitting round the pub, reading the guardian, stroking our beards and nodding sagely way.

however i suspect they is all rich, middle class, and living somewhere far away in suburbia. and not on the central like what i is doing. rage

no wonder i is feeling isolated.

Lily livered liberal here - though I could imagine you could add Hawklord to that list.
I would like to meet up with Bunkerites but spend so little time in Hartlepool and dont travel to away games at present due to two small kids, work and writing.
Middle Class? To some I suppose I am. Brought up in a semi-detached house near centre of hartlepool, but we only stayed in the house cos when my dad died the bank paid the mortgage off.
Anyway my mam would consider herself as working class and my step-dad (from age of 6) is from Grassmoor near Chesterfield and was one of those blokes working down the mine when he was eight or something, definitely working class.
Everyone I knocked round when younger with would be classed as working class I reckon.
Now I live in an ex council house in Seaton Sluice in between Whitley Bay and Blyth - definitely a nice place to live but certainly not posh (the part I live in)
But then again, my inlaws are very middle class.
Err...am I middle class? I like to think I'm a mixture personally but maybe thats inverted snobbery.
And just for the record chip I tend to agree with almost everything you say when it comes to football and other views and I'm not particularly interested in gay bunkers either.

poolpower · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:29 pm

I rarely missed a vote and my final one was with my feet. Having explored my options it seemed much the better choice.

but Kev surely you will be back to pick up your cudgel and your vote when the time suits you

i am working class
at least i was when i was working
you can take the kid out of the streets but not the street out of the kid
i would say the owld feller influenced my political views when i was a lad
but i find who ever gets the seat it makes not one iota difference to the working class
so why would i want to swap sides

Salty · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:35 pm

everyone should be like me! :grin:

ie not attatched to any political party or persuasion with a couldn't give a sh it attitude :wink:

Salty · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:37 pm

oh aye, work is the curse of the drinking classes 'member :roll:

poolpower · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:39 pm

FatBastad wrote:

surely those that constantly tell every one they are working class, is just a kind of snobbery?

In much the same way as saying you are middle class.

Wouldnt it be better for us all to remove any references to the class system forever?

so when was the last time i was invited to a dinner party in your house?

poolpower · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:58 pm

mainly because not all parents think like you and I

i was in an argument once with a neighbour over kids
which is futile i know but still had to stand my ground

when i now compare my one nad only child aginst the kids now grown up and in their twenties i can see where they have gone wrong
but at the time it was their right to do what they have done with their own and now they reap the benefits of their folly
of the four
one is an un married father out of work and living with his 19 year old girl friend at his mothers
the other two have both left home at eighteen and shacked up with blokes
and mine just wont leave home ..... rolfl

Cowboy · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:34 pm

chip fireball wrote:

in a way kev is right. when i was young i was angry and idealistic and i thought i could change the world,in fact i was convinced i could.

as you get older you come to realise that this isnt going to happen and that the best you can hope for is to influence people within a smaller network.

people like britishwest and karl are not sitting back, they are doing something postive with their lives, and influencing others. it used to be called " giving something back" though im not sure what its called now.

i have a deep admiration for people in the caring and teaching professions and often wish i had done something more constructive with my life.

my currect goal is to raise well balanced, well adjusted, tolerant children who will make the world a better place.

it saddens me when going to a nativity play to think that some of the kids up on stage who seem so angelic and harmless, will possibly grow up to be junkies, or burgalars, or worse.

i dont think any 6 or 7 year old sets out to be an addict or a mugger when they grow up. and im not sure what makes one kid end up going down one path when another doesnt. its not always the kids from the wrong side of the tracks that end up in trouble, but i bet they are more likely to.

you only have to go to the middleton grange shopping centre and watch parents with their kids to depress yourself. every day you will see parents whacking their kids, shovelling pasties into them, or using the worst language possible in front of them. i often think to myself " what possible chance has that kid got" with parents like that.

if kids grow up in an enviroment where violence, intolerance and general bad behaviour is the norm, then its hardly suprising they grow up to be unpleasant individuals. im sure we all know families where there have been 3,4,5 generations of thoroughly unpleasant offspring.

much maligned teachers and social workers cant be expected to turn every kid/family around, and i sometimes wonder where they get the patience to keep trying.

and i think this is part of the reason people have become generally apathetic about politicians. you look around and see so many problems that you cant even begin to imagine how anyone could solve them all.

what i have tried to do is to stop worring about the mess that i cant do anything about, and try to change the small things i can do something about. i also try to focus on the good and positive aspects of our society.

i envy the education my kids are getting at state schools, and the possibilities open to them. i look at how much more pleasant a place the town and the country as a whole is compared to when i was a kid and how many modern luxuries we have.

i still marvel at the wonders of the world wide web and all the other technology available at my fingertips.

despite all the bad stuff has there ever been a better time in the history of the world to be alive ?

Very good post thre Chip clappp

nick · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:36 pm

chip fireball wrote:

despite all the bad stuff has there ever been a better time in the history of the world to be alive ?

too complicated to answer, that.

was it a better time when we went around forraging for food, sleeping in bushes, etc...? (I mean in the hunter gatherer times, not kicking-out time at Jax)

when we didn't know about electricity and we'd never seen anyone who lived more than 20 miles ago we could have been more contented than we are now.

basically what i am saying is that ignorance is bliss - modern developments have allowed us to see how shitty the world can be, and we'd probably all be saner if we were in the dark.

nick · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:40 pm

if something is formed then i'll be a willing policy advisor. i don't want me face on lamp posts or owt, like.

Spender · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:42 pm

poolpower wrote:

I rarely missed a vote and my final one was with my feet. Having explored my options it seemed much the better choice.

but Kev surely you will be back to pick up your cudgel and your vote when the time suits you

It's early days mate, but I don't think so. Maybe I've still got stars in my eyes but I don't feel threatened or have to be careful when I walk around here, don't have to think about where I go, don't have to worry about burglary, vandalism, speed cameras, the cost of living, traffic jams, shitty weather, bad food, celebrities, puke in the street, dogshit, litter, recycling, bank charges, Jehovahs Witnesses, planning permission, health and safety, television licences, tax or insurance.

parmopooly · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:03 pm

one thing is for sure, life can be very complicated. I can see why some people just drop out and go and live places where they don't have to come into contact with other people if they don't want to. It has crossed my mind a few times recently, BTW................................

grabec · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:08 pm

offshorepoolie wrote:

Just been reading through all this and what staring me in theface is the fact that there is a place for a party of Hartlepool. Are we interested in doing something about itrather than just bumping our gums hoping theoccasional politicall reasearcher stumbles upon it? I for one was up for this challenge but it seems tome most of you would just rather take a back seat and let the status quo prevail.

So finally once and for all is the notion of a PooliePride Party dead before it started? Let me know and if it is I promise to stop banghead

cos I'm starting to get an headache!!

I would be very interested in doing something about it if I could think of a way of politicising 'the man in the street', but nick's already pointed out that's not easy.
When I was in my 20s in H'pool I used to go around with an IS group that'd set up there....selling Socialist Worker outside factories etc etc. Everyone we spoke to agreed with us and we thought the revolution was just around the corner. Needless to say, it wasn't

Spender · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:11 pm

grabec wrote:

[
I would be very interested in doing something about it if I could think of a way of politicising 'the man in the street', but nick's already pointed out that's not easy.
When I was in my 20s in H'pool I used to go around with an IS group that'd set up there....selling Socialist Worker outside factories etc etc. Everyone we spoke to agreed with us and we thought the revolution was just around the corner. Needless to say, it wasn't

Yeah but everyone was on the gravy train in the early sixties!! :roll:

grabec · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:17 pm

Pooliekev wrote:

grabec wrote:

[
I would be very interested in doing something about it if I could think of a way of politicising 'the man in the street', but nick's already pointed out that's not easy.
When I was in my 20s in H'pool I used to go around with an IS group that'd set up there....selling Socialist Worker outside factories etc etc. Everyone we spoke to agreed with us and we thought the revolution was just around the corner. Needless to say, it wasn't

Yeah but everyone was on the gravy train in the early sixties!! :roll:

Kevin, do you mind?
I was not in my 20s in the early 60s. Tho that's beside the point (sigh) as usual

grabec · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:28 pm

chip fireball wrote:

i wish i had stuck in at school and dragged myself out of da ghettos, instead of looking at girls, hanging around outside the bookies, and generally pishing my life away in dead end jobs. double rage

Well, maybe, but one thing you can certainly do is write. That post you sent a while ago about the Hartlepool chimney, for instance...that was a gem.
As a few other people on here have said, it's not easy to think in terms of saving the world, once you've hit middle age, but there are still personal things you can do that matter. Like, er, writing

Spender · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:28 pm

grabec wrote:

Yeah but everyone was on the gravy train in the early sixties!! :roll:

Kevin, do you mind?
I was not in my 20s in the early 60s. Tho that's beside the point (sigh) as usual[/quote]

Ooohhh!!!! Sunday name!!! :shock:

Anyway you aren't fooling anyone except yourself!! :razz:

Look it was me who said vote vote vote!!! Vote anything, just vote.

There'll be twenty people off this very thread at the game on Saturday, there'll be 2800 or so registered voters. Put the ground purchase up as a leader and hand out 140 flyers each. Then get one of the local parties alongside.

Bingo, you've got yourself a manifesto and an action plan and you're already manipulating local politicians.

Now tell me whats hard about that?? :roll:

grabec · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:33 pm

[
Well, I'm sorry, but going political would be an enormous commitment in terms of personal time and energy and so if I did it, it would have to be for a more important issue than the sale of a football ground. I don't mean that in a derogotary way, just that it's not what I think of as high priority

Spender · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:39 pm

grabec wrote:

[
Well, I'm sorry, but going political would be an enormous commitment in terms of personal time and energy and so if I did it, it would have to be for a more important issue than the sale of a football ground. I don't mean that in a derogotary way, just that it's not what I think of as high priority

Sigh..................wedges have two ends, right??? :roll:

A thick end and a.................... :wink:

Spender · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:11 pm

Point is ALL those 2800 want the club to buy the ground and it's the politicians that stand in the way. 300 votes or can win a council seat. If you haven't got our own councillors, buy the ones who want electing. Their own greed will get them onside.

Cowboy · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:23 pm

offshorepoolie wrote:

Pooliekev wrote:

Look it was me who said vote vote vote!!! Vote anything, just vote.

There'll be twenty people off this very thread at the game on Saturday, there'll be 2800 or so registered voters. Put the ground purchase up as a leader and hand out 140 flyers each. :roll:

Why does it need to be one of the establishment?? Fook 'em I say they've not been interested in the town for years! Only their own little cosy numbers in Westminster.
I'm deadly serious about this. Iwant to see things change for thebetter inthis town. The easiest way I see is getting away from theold party metallity. Do I put my printer into overdrive and direct one and all to the bunker to register their interest ? Maybe in the council forum? Come on guys work with me on this one!

As I have said on a number of occasions OSP I am with you, will provide assistance in any way I can, call a meeting & lets get this away from a place where all that can be done is talk (with the greatest of respect guys, no offence meant) to a face to face location where something may actually be done!!!!! Those that have an interest will show up & we will know what chances we have & what we have to work with

Anything come of Mr I's article in the bizz?

Cowboy · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:28 pm

grabec wrote:

[
Well, I'm sorry, but going political would be an enormous commitment in terms of personal time and energy and so if I did it, it would have to be for a more important issue than the sale of a football ground. I don't mean that in a derogotary way, just that it's not what I think of as high priority

Hook? Bait?

Ask the mayor about the power of HUFC on the politics of this town!!!!!!

The football club is a logical starting point, nothing more, nothing less - not the be all and end all

MutleyRules · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:59 pm

Anyone fancy a pint???? :grin:

Cowboy · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:55 pm

Woodcutter is fine for me - best to avoid Thursdays for me

Snowy · **Joined:** Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:18 pm **Posts:** 41299

Just a thought, but if councillors were only allowed to be in office for 10 years, do you think 90% of the ones who do it now would even bother to do it...? Better still, wouldn't it be nice if party politics were excluded from local politics and had to live within the wards they were standing for election in....?

BritishWestHpool · **Joined:** Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:35 pm **Posts:** 1243

[quote="chip fireball"]

i have a deep admiration for people in the caring and teaching professions and often wish i had done something more constructive with my life.

my currect goal is to raise well balanced, well adjusted, tolerant children who will make the world a better place.

what i have tried to do is to stop worring about the mess that i cant do anything about, and try to change the small things i can do something about. i also try to focus on the good and positive aspects of our society.

quote]

Well, there's no job thats more important than bringing your kids up the right way Chip.
Small changes or changes in individuals are definitely the way to see progress, and probably to stop depression for some people.
You could apply to the YOT or social services to be a mentor or a panel member in referral orders. Newcastle and Sunderland have them so Hartlepool probably does.
You talk a lot of sense, your views are very balanced, you're not some fluffy upper middle class person feeling guilty and sorry for the poor as you've had such an easy life. There could be some teenage lad who has never had a dad, who is about to go off the ropes, that would listen to you, get a good relationship with you. That's what mentoring is about..being there to listen to someone, take em out for something to eat or a kick around or to the pictures, someone who has been unfortunate in life or is viewed as being on the cusp of getting into loads of bother but young enough to be steered in the right direction. Some kids and mentors both get loads out of it. Its voluntary mind, with expenses.
You'd be spot on for it if you had the time or inclination. I presume there's something similar in Hpool

nick · **Posted:** Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:24 pm

Quote:

not all tories are rabid racists who want to set fire to coal miners.

aye...quite a lot are though

:laugh:

The Poolie Bunker

For the Bunker liberals....

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