The Poolie Bunker

but my question was what if your kids took hard drugs
would you condemn them or not

that was covered well enough by brit west hpool

in my opinion acid aint a hard drug along the lines of heroin, crack, coke, ice etc.

However three of these are almost instantly addictive whereas coke is not so addictive after the first few uses.

I would steer them away wherever possible from the aforementioned three and would exercise caution with coke due to it's addictiveness over longer term usage. The same can be said of alcohol and nicoteen - moderation or avoidance - quite simply nicoteen and alcohol kill more people in this country than any other illegal drug put together. Who knows what the future holds for them - peer pressure can be good and bad and I trust that by the time they reach this stage in their life that either a) I have made them strong young people or 2) that the government stop turning a blind eye to the mass cultivation of heroin 200 miles away from 5500 troops and ergo it's importation of into this country.


I hope if they wish to try things that they would tell me however one thing is for sure I would know the signs and the advice that I could give them is difinitively superior to ignorance and denial.

that is a load of horliks
anyone who would stand by and watch their kids have any risk at all of taking drugs is totally irresponsible
you can steer them away and if you dont then in my book you are no better than pushers

Teenagers are well known for rushing to their parents for advice on drugs.

words fail me with the pair of you

understand today's society sooner rather than later for if you don't you may well have problems if you have children/young adults.

Give me a call if you need some advice in the future.

Now 7 and a bit hours to sunrise

cop out
you have never answered one question other than usuing westhartlepools reply
the truth is bragging about drugs gives some people a kick
when the reality is far differant
call it recreation if you like but you are no differant to the smackheads you look down on

i have one daughter that is now 22 and i would put her up against any candidate you like and they would not come near
lets hope you have the same success

Don't you really mean understand 'your' interpretation of society......?

no cop out here.
my reply is similar to his because my way of thinking may well be the same.
i aint bragging about drugs I haven't taken any for seven years
and i know better than any that the reality is far from different
Of course I am far superior to the smackheads that ALL OF SOCIETY looks down up on - I have never stolen, robbed, lied etc etc etc to pay for anything. Heroin addiction though becomes an illness and should be treated accordingly.
Your daughter is 22 - I smoked my first joint aged 18, had my first tab of acid aged 22, my first line of coke aged 23 - i talk with experience and hope that you can keep her clear of such sins and i hope that she remains free of all vices.
I have no desire at all to see my kids coming home with me suspecting that they have a joint for I know where it leads. However if they did I would be prepared and able to deal with it.

Lets hope you have the same success.

Look around you, FFS.

As Winston Churchill once put it

Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak, courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

Think about it

So the answer is, according to you....'don't do it'... which is what we've been saying all along. On a point, Just because someone has done drugs, does not mean they are any more enlightened about the perils than anyone else....... I've never been run over, but I don't need someone who has to tell me it's a dumb idea, I'd worked that out a long time ago.

It's good to debate.

I'm not saying don't do it, I am also not saying do it, I am saying I did it.

Regardless, people in general don't particularly CHOOSE to get ran over.

Even the missus agrees with me on this one....

Used to love acid in my late teens/early 20's and I can definitely say I had some great fun taking it.

I'm still prone to a spliff or two now and then, not into all the heavy weed though, prefer a bit of solids, at least I can still communicate after a couple of them

live and let live I say...

if this is not bragging or bravado then i dont understand the meaning
how old are your kids and how long before they start dropping a tab or two?
i just dont see where people can put chemicals into their body and call it recreation
ok salty i take your point to each his own but to brag about it on a message board in my book is totally irresponsible and the old argument that drinkand cigs kill more than drugs is all they can defend it with
that is not a defence for any argument on drugs
some smack head who has to rob for his next fix wont tell you that drugs have broadened his mind
but he probably started with recreational drugs too

sigh

Silent sigh

There's arguments for both sides. Responsible people take recreational drugs, irresponsible people take wreckreational drugs. If you can do it, do it, if you can't don't. I just grew out of it but I drink like a trout.

This ain't bragging - this is a statement in answer to another members post - get over it and it is an open forum henceforth people can openly discuss what they want - next week is rimming are you up for a debate on that??

quote from a song - 'she won't do drugs but she does the pill' - again think about it - the hypocrisy of peoples views is bizarrley alarming -

most people imbibe chemicals and take drugs every day of their life be it an opiate derivative for back pain, birth control pill, alcohol, nicoteen, certain food types and of course those classed as illegal by the government and so on.

your argument is holding less and less creedence as you waffle on further.

mmmm

let us see

1366 drug-related deaths UK in 2006

8386 alcohol related deaths in 2005

88800 smoking related deaths in 2004

Need I say more -you're getting quite embarrassing now but pray continue for I will have an answer for anything that you try to throw back.

I think Kev has just given everyone a subtle hint that we'll all just have to agree to disagree as we aint gonna agree on this one. So let's all just do that eh?

there are lies damn lies and statistics
i think it is you that has lost the argument as you have answered very little in response to my questions
the only argument you put back belonged to someone else
says it all
deep sigh

lies and stats - a refusal to accept the truth - a blinkered vision - the statement that you are referring to of course refers to lies - but these are not lies this is the truth - accept it and move on.

These figures are as strong as my argument.

You seem to have one response though which seems to be 'I dont agree therefore you are wrong' - what a loser.

I have responded fully and openly based on my CHOICE and knowledge - you have replied based on what you got told 70 years ago at school.

You are now beyond embarrassing - you are now very tedious

Are we ALL finished now................ can we put this one to bed and just admit it's a stalemate.

so snowy is right because you have done it you are the more enlightened one
and i am tedious because you lost the argument
kev is right let it go but
i still say it is bragging

I have never done heroin Mr I and I never would have done at any stage of my life, but I know people who have personally and I work with 16 - 21 year old homeless people in a residential setting and some of them have been addicted to heroin as well as many other drugs, illegal and legal.

Heroin is a pain killer, simple as

It takes away physical and especially emotional pain. In fact it seems to take away all problems (very useful for some) except of course, the need to get another fix, or smoke of it.
Users describe feeling safe, sometimes floating, sometimes floating in fluffy clouds, always without a care in the world. There's no hallucionegic journey's or owt like that.

While we're on the subject of it, I'll present you with two case studies - people I know very well as I have worked where they live for about nine months.

19 year old male - who started taking heroin aged 16. His mother had learning disabilities, couldnt look after him properly, had an alcohol and drugs problem. His father was very violent to his mother in front of him then left when he was young and he has never seen him since, doesnt know if he is alive or dead. When he was 13 (much younger emotionally and mentally)and obviously very vulnerable he was taken in by older lads or men. They got him to deal drugs for them, do the rounds on his bike around Newcastle. Suddenly he had a job, respect, self-esteem, people who gave him time, praised him. Except he was on someone else's patch and some drug dealers dont mess around. He was dragged off his bike, still aged 13 remember, shoved in a car, dragged to a house in West Newcastle, up the stairs, forced to watch as they pulled out a gun and shot a rival dealer in the head at point blank range. He never told anyone til last year. How could he? He was terrified he'd be blasted himself. Instead he turned to drugs himself. But the only drug that blocked out the pain was heroin, the only one that worked well enough. He steals to get money at times, but he's on dla and income support so uses that more than theft. When he was 17 the police put him under pressure to give a statement about some other dealer. He relented cos they said he'd get a better deal, wouldnt be sent down. He was dealt with by getting the sides of his mouth sliced open, making his mouth much wider, cut so it wouldnt heal properly. Now everywhere he goes he's known to many as a grass - cos thats what happens to grasses.
Victim or offender? Both? What percentage?

16 year old girl, raped aged 11 a number of times, family background quite similar. The only things that blocks out the visions, the nightmares every time she closes her eyes and tries to sleep, is heroin. What are the alternatives? See a shrink, talk about it in detail, what happened to her? She shoplifts to get money for heroin
Victim or offender or both? And what percentage?

So many people condemn with no understanding at all. Is it their fault the most effective pain relief is only prescribed to a handful of people in the country? They have no control over the quality of the heroin they take. Their lives are in the hands of dealers.

I'm not saying heroin is the answer, or morphine. I think dealers are the disgusting ones, the big guys with big fucking cars and houses, ruining the lives of people further. I'd lock em up for life. The fact that over 80% of heroin in this country comes from one country is disgusting. Somthing should be done about it like Katcha says.

little rant: When it comes to violence, and some of my young people have been victims to horrendous violence, including being stabbed so much we were sure he was going to die on us due all the blood lost, alcohol is withoubt doubt a major factor behind much of that violence. I'd go as far as to say alcohol was behind over 90% of the violence there. Cannabis, lsd, mushrooms, coke and heroin probably accounts for absolutely no percent whatsoever. Speed and valium (when mixed with alcohol) a tiny percentage. As for crack, well thankfully that hasnt yet spread up here too much but its certainly on its way and that will cause violence when it does so.

no you never won the argument in fact you had little other to proffer other than a one-eyed catholic theory of 'I think, therefore I am right' - which is why you can't let it go.

think harder - take a look around - listen to advice - re-read all of this thread again and save it somewhere.- chaque jour est un jour d'ecole.

vanity has played a part in every leaders' downfall - I am not for bragging but for explaining.

I hope this is the end of you re this topic - you are close to progessing from tedious to something smelly in the corner that is just to be avoided

A very good post BritishWestHpool, echoing some of the experiences I have encounterted working with young offenders.

Thanks Mr BWH for a great insight. I've seen someone close to me on heroin almost die and this persons life at the time was a mess so I guess you've confirmed my suspicions its the escapism that attracts. My instincts tell me that those higher up the food chain are the ones to blame rather than the users. I've said on here before that my view is that we should legalise all drugs and make them free from clinics. That way we wipe out a huge percentage of petty crime. At the same time we control the quality of the drugs and give the clinics the opportunity to help those addicted.

My Dad has had the success, as has my Mam as has my Nana from keeping me away from all that. I wouldn't touch drugs of any kind and thats as much down to what they taught me growing up as it is down to my own common sense.

I get the feeling from reading this thread that the opinion of some is that the "youth of today" all do drugs at some point in their lives. I have already said that I haven't and wouldn't take drugs but I also know that my friends have not either. Its something that we have always been against and I know for sure if one of the group were to take them they would have us lot on their back in an instant.

Its that kind of stereotyping of young people that annoys me. We are not all smack head hoodies who hang round street corners happy slapping people and sticking the vids of it on youtube after stealing a tenner out of some old ladies handbag to pay for a gallon of lambrini. Sadly its the decent ones, the majority, who get ignored in favour of the foolish minority.

Great - well done. It's good that you have the 'common sense' but this underlines my point regarding what they have taught you growing up - if they have no experience then they are just teaching you - mmm let me think - lies, damn lies and statistics....

Do any of your circle of friends take 'the pill' - which allows people to be adventurous in a physical (without the obvious reprucussions) way rather than a mental way. Are you on their back for this - to restrain the choice and freedom of one of your friends is quite a draconian act - if you are their friend then you should allow them to make their own choices - as they should understand your concerns.

As my staistics showed earlier - the minority are the drug takers and the majority clearly are the drinkers and smokers - this is of course a representation of society as a whole - a stat echoing your comments but also highlighting the refusal to accept a reasoned argument by Gremmlin.

You offer a more reasoned deabte than the Gremmlin and for that I doff my cap - but there again the dog could have really.

And Lambrini - surely at 22 you are too old!!

one of my drugs of choice from 1991 to 1997 - I loved it

strawberries
keydoves
microdots
red hearts
mandalas
daffy ducks
planets
MADs
candles
sonics
purples oms
green oms
red dragons

and they is just the ones i can remember

not bragging yet you list them like a school boy
the first line says it all
ok i am a tedious smell because i dont or never have taken drugs and the fact i question the enlightened experience you claim to have had
like i said without the users you would not have the pushers
your only saving grace is that you decided to end your habit

It wasn't a habit - It really just shows how little you know

'I loved it' ain't bragging it's an expression of my enjoyment - bragging would be saying I used to take four a night and walk home on my hands whilst reciting keats - as someone might take great creedence in being able to drink like a trout.

The list is a recollection of some happy times - just like people list records, films, tv shows, different makes of ale, and so on.

It is not a part of society you are aware of - you are all the better for that, and that culture is all for that better for that too.

your posts are tedious and they are resembling an unpleasureable odour because YOU JUST DON'T GET THE FOOKIN MESSAGE(S) and keep harping on - 'like a schoolboy'

welcome to the board go and listen to your daughter she talks more sense than you.

I can understand both sides of the argument here, and have chose not to contribute my particular opinion, because that is all it would be, an opinion. But the one thing I would like to pass comment on is your unnecessary use of offensive put downs. It certainly does not strengthen your viewpoint, or help to convince anyone. So why not finally draw that line under this thread, and realize that whatever peoples opinions are on the subject, they will almost certainly remain.

Unlikely conversation.........
"Dad..I've just murdered someone.....I know you and me mam taught me for years and years that murder was wrong, but that's all you did, just teach me it was wrong.But I can't take any notice of your teaching because you don't really have the experience of murdering someone to pass judgement on murder. Now if only Mr Sutcliffe or Mr West hadn't been in chokey I'd have asked them because they know the score, they've actually done it, unlike you who knows nowt. I actually respect their opinion because they know what they're talking about."

And that is my final word on the subject, because all you can do is teach the kids it's not the answer.

Similar to jumping in front of a car committing murder holds little water in this debate.

Then you read your signature....

the same could be said of medication

end of

Mr West died of chokey. Am I the only one that thinks HMP Winson Greens custodians assisted that one??

I know this is going on and on but I have to reply to that one master of disguise, whoever you may be.
You never knew what a drink did upon yourself til you had one - then you knew the effect it would have.
The same goes with drugs. Once you've had one you know the effects.

Of course you dont take your time to enjoy with a pill - it just goes down - but its the effects that people are after right? Not the taste. You enjoy the taste and the drinking because it has a placebo effect that works straight away, as much as enjoying the actual taste.

As for smoking a spliff well you can take your time and enjoy that if thats your thing, just like a drink. You could even say the same about doing a line of something - its just quicker thats all.
As for comparing alcohol to drug taking being daft - that argument is ridiculous sir
Alcohol is a drug - why cant people see that? Its one of the most addictive drugs invented.
It just happens to be a legal drug, thats all.

Reccie drugs are experimented on by a lot of kids. Some like em and stick to them, some are scared of them, some don’t like them and some prefer drink. I dabbled heavily and stopped when I was 30 ish. I stopped cos me wife didn’t like it and it was a choice thing, and I preferred the wife. But I never felt out of control in my habits, never wanted to stick a needle in me arm, but equally I never get up in the morning and have a craving for a half bottle.

I have 2 step kids and was worried, as any parent would be, that they may turn out smackheads or acid casualties. Thing is, they have supporting parents – fecking too many but that’s the crack with step parenting! - who brought them up in loving and caring environment. They both experimented, still do, and are both cracking lads who I am as proud as feck of. I know what they do, cos they tell me. They both drink FAR too much, but I cannt really sat owt as I do an all.

Drugs are holidays for the head – if you don’t like em, don’t do em. But I like a bit of a buzz in me head – don’t know why, always have done, thinks its probably along the lines of a “Life less ordinary”, but its my choice. Nowadays I drink, smoke roll-ups and drink mega death expresso’s. Could smoke a bit of weed but don’t want to, but don’t care if others do.

So that’s it – oh and thanks to BWH for his contributions to this thread, the finest I’ve read on the Bunker.

my whole point in the thread which has been conveniently forgotten would you brag about it?

Jesus H Christ in a chicken basket, enough already!!!
the need to have the last word on this is daft as a fu cking carrot. so stop it

well played mut

no i do perogative

Oh, I wouldn't go so far as to say that

Flummoxed.

BFG

Nobody seems to mind when people brag about their alcohol excesses, not just on this board but in general. I'd go as far as to say that alcohol excesses are often seen in a positive light and are pushed by role models such as actors, nodels and musicians. Maybe people think this is all right as alcohol is legal. It is like, tobacco legal but still classed as a drug.

I wouldn't advocate drugs to anyone but at the same time I wouldn't advocate smoking or drinking. It's a persons choice and they should have as much reliable information as possible to make that decision. Of course often when a person makes that decision either drink, smoking or drugs, it is at a point of weakness such as stress, peer pressure, abuse in its many forms, bullying or being adventurous.

There is no easy solution to this one and illicit drug use has gone on for a very long time and by all classes of society.